#2: Craig McCarroll: From Combat to Consciousness — The Mission That Saved His Life

Craig McCarroll spent 8 years as a Marine in the elite First Recon Battalion and 6+ years of high-stakes contractor work— then spent years in the dark.
Infidelity during deployment. PTSD. Contractor life's hidden toll. A moment where suicide felt close. He doesn't hide any of it.

What came next was a different kind of mission — DMT, ayahuasca, ibogaine, 5-MeO, and MDMA-assisted therapy combined with the Wisdom Dojo cracked him open and brought him back to life. He now teaches veterans to find their way home to themselves.

Whether you've served, struggled with mental health, or lost someone to suicide — this episode will hit you in the chest and remind you: truth really does set you free.

Connect with Craig:
IG: CoachCraig_
FB: Craig McCarroll
in: Craig McCarroll
Fed up Kitchen: Meridian.fedupkitchen.com

RESOURCES:
The Wisdom Dojo: thewisdomdojo.org
Vajra Ocean: vajraocean.org
 
0:00:00 — Truth Will Set You Free
0:01:27 — Meet Craig McCarroll
0:03:44 — A 23rd Birthday Decision
0:08:47 — The Ocean as Medicine
0:10:21 — Infidelity During Deployment
0:26:40 — The Dark Night of the Soul
0:33:06 — The Light Switch Moment
0:45:28 — Grandfather, Grief & the Letter
0:53:53 — The Birthday Ceremony
1:07:50 — Sacred Medicine Is Real Medicine
1:18:32 — The Reiki Table & the 3-Year-Old
1:20:15 — The Warrior's Heart Awakens
1:27:50 — The Second Mission
1:29:46 — Wisdom Dojo: Finding His Path
1:46:39 — Truth Really Does Set You Free

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Transcript

Craig: 0:02

But that truth will set you free. That secret is what's causing the pain and the suffering in you. And when you can unlock that and free it from you, all of a sudden, all that weight that was being carried is gone. And so I do my best to practice living from a place of truth.

Katiuscia: 0:20

Before I even introduce you today, I think I wanna share why I am so excited about this conversation and why I feel it would benefit so many people and who it's really for. So the generalized topics that we'll be talking about today are healing, mental health, and as everybody knows, when you hear of those topics, you know that there is this whole spectrum of different layers and different levels that go into healing that people deal with, with mental health issues and just the growth and life and everything that comes with it. Everyone can really benefit from it. I feel everybody is kind of on some kind of healing journey in their life. And so with that, I am so excited to have such a fascinating conversation with my rad friend Craig McCarroll. He is a Marine. He spent eight years in active duty. And he has a fascinating story, and I swear Craig, every time I talk to you, I always want more, which is why I am so grateful that you came on today to talk to me about this. So welcome. floor is yours. Yeah.

Craig: 1:22

Thank, thank you very much. It's, uh, it's an honor to be thought of in a way, like where, hey, I'm worth sitting down with and have a conversation. So thank you so much for, of course, for this opportunity. There's a lot of nerves with this and, uh, I like to call things out as I'm experiencing them. It's part of my practice in just living authentically from that true, true place. So yeah, you said, uh, eight years in the Marines. I, um, once Marine, always a Marine. as you get further away from the Marine Corps, it's like you. Kinda like holding onto this identity, this comradery that you have that never dies with the guys that you served with. And, um, it continues, continues on. So yeah, eight years in the Marines. I did some, uh, contract work for about six years, six and a half years. And, um, in 2016, I, stopped deploying. Um, this already started starting to touch into some truth, so. Uh, you cool with like, what's, what's off limits here?

Katiuscia: 2:27

There's nothing, there's nothing off limits. This is literally your space. So just think of it as just me and you, like, don't pay any, don't pay any attention to this. This is me and you. This is as much as you wanna share. I would love to hear it. I think my goal, and we talked about this on the phone, my goal is always with every conversation I have, if my guest says something that hits one person

Craig: 2:51

mm-hmm.

Katiuscia: 2:52

And makes an impact that is so crucial. So I already kind of figured today was gonna be a heavier, maybe a little bit of an emotional day, and you're kind of tapping into me. I will say, I know you hear it all the time. Thank you for your time serving our country and just keeping us safe, our baby country of, of 250 years. But thank you for that. This is totally your, your space to get as deep as you wanna get.

Craig: 3:13

Cool. Well, I think I'll, uh. I'll just go from the very beginning, like, uh, joining the Marine Corps. It was like I was 20, I was 23 on my 23rd birthday, standing on the footsteps of MCRD. Um, like what in the hell was I thinking, getting yelled at by a drill instructor. My youngest brother had just graduated high school and he was, um, working with me at the time. So then he said, I think I'm gonna go join the, you know, military National Guard. I think it was. And I was like, cool, after, after work, let's, I'll just take you over to the recruiters and I'll go, we'll go, we'll check it out together. Well, the first door on the right is the Marine Corps, and for some reason I had some calling to the Marines and so I said, fuck it, I'm going with you. Recruiters had a really easy day that day. We weren't, we didn't need to see the recruiting videos. I just looked at a poster that later on I found out was a recon poster and uh, that's where I actually served was with First Recon Battalion and. Uh, Camp Pendleton. Um, but yeah, so 23rd birthday, I'm standing in the footsteps of MCRD and I was like, holy shit, this, there's different ways to spend your birthday rather than getting yelled at. But for some reason it was like, I felt like I had landed in a place where I was like, I'm meant to be here.

Katiuscia: 4:35

Nice.

Craig: 4:36

I am totally meant to be here. Just went full bore into the Marine Corps. Like everything I could do to be the most intense, best, the best marine that I could possibly be. Uh, graduated company, honor man from from bootcamp. It was really cool having my brother there too. So we went through, I, so just FYII. Um, in, um, when I was a contractor my call sign was Wild card. I joined the Wisdom Dojo and started this healing process finding, finding the truth of me. And now my call sign has gone from Wild Card to uh, CBC, which is Cry Baby Craig. So when I started to talk about these things, my heart, my heart cracks open, and the emotions that come from there is truth, like at a very clear, pure level. Um, and when I think of my. When I think of my brother, brothers, siblings, my sister, you know, my parents. And, um, and how we ended up there in bootcamp together was in a, in a way, divine intervention. And I think that everything that we, as I've lived my life, and I look back at it now, I'm like, nothing could have been any different. It couldn't be, I couldn't have done more, done, less done this different. Dropped outta high school, got a GED, felt like a failure. I was quitting everything. Didn't finish that, didn't finish that. Then I go to the Marine Corps and it's like, fuck this. I'm, I'm not quitting this. I'm going to see this through. I'm gonna see this through all the way. I'm gonna put my head down. I may not be the smartest, I may not be the toughest, but I'm going to do my very, very best. And so it was cool to have my brother there. He was on the first floor. I was on the third floor. We kept ourselves separated 'cause we, we knew that we'd beat the shit out of each other. If we, if we were in the same platoon, we would be fighting for that alpha position. And, and my brother's one tough, tough puppy. So, um, yeah, I spent the time in the, in. Um, bootcamp, went to School of Infantry. Then from there went out to the East Coast to, uh, Fort Story for recon training. And, um, went to recon training. That was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Physically, mentally. I had stress fractures so bad in my shins. It was hard to walk, so I was popping. 800 milligram motrins like they were candy. And, uh, first thing in the morning about, about a mile into the, the run that morning you could get to where you, you're kind of numb and so you just keep driving.

Katiuscia: 7:26

Oh my gosh.

Craig: 7:26

And so then you're getting wet, sandy cold, miserable. but it taught me a lot. Like, it taught me that, you know, my wrestling coach used to always teach me this was, um, the heart is always stronger than the mind, so. When we start to feel like we're tired, just tap the heart. This is gonna remind you that you're, that you're stronger than you think. And I think that's a message for really anybody and everybody like this. Life kicks you in, the can kick you in the ass, and, and it will continue beating you down until you just let go. Anyway, so went to, uh, recon training, graduated recon training. Then went to my first unit, which was Camp Pendleton. so first Recon Battalion, camp Pendleton, and that's where I checked in my team. The first order of business was to grow my hair out and um, get a surfboard. So it's like sick. I had just watched, you know, everybody's seen a point break. I'm an FBI agent. I'm like, I can do surfing. That that guy did it and so jumped in the water. I loved the water and just fell in love with. It was one of the hardest sports I ever learned and continue to learn. You can't master that sport, I don't think, yeah, so I went, started going surfing every morning unless we were deployed and um, yeah, fell in love with that. That's where water, the ocean, the sea. Really has a very healing effect for me. It has, it's this, it's this connection to the earth, to the heavens above, it just synchronizes with everybody. And I think, I think everybody, we all came from the sea in some, some way of shape or form of those we have, we are made up of those elements with a consciousness. And so when we get it, when I get into the water, it's like, all the worries in the world that melt away and I can just go out there, be with me, be with the sea, just it's like the sea is rocking It's really a beautiful experience. Whether I can jump on the wave or not, I'm just being out there is a, a beautiful thing. And come to find, you know, later on in my life, I really needed that. I needed that, uh, that connection to the sea and how it was able to, to help me through a lot of Went on my first deployment and, uh, found out my wife at the time had, was cheating on me. So that was, uh, I don't wish that kind of shit on anybody that, uh, the way that destroys a person's psyche of who you think you are and. You know, I'm like, I'm a recon Marine. I'm, I'm in shape. I'm doing all this. I'm, I'm faithful, I'm loyal. Boom. And then you get delivered with, with that punch to the face and you're like, that fucked me up, pretty good.

Katiuscia: 10:30

So, let me interrupt real quick to ask. Do you, I guess in your experience when you were active, did you find that that happened to a lot of people? Because we hear about this, right? And you, you kind of don't know unless you have friends that are in the military or if it's just from movies that you're seeing. Is this, this is obviously as common, which is horrific. Yeah. Because. The position that you're in, especially if you're deployed, you're already in a different mindset, so, okay. So it does happen often. It's not, that's God all the

Craig: 10:57

time.

Katiuscia: 10:58

That's really shitty. It's a,

Craig: 10:59

it's a rarity if the, uh, if a couple stays together.

Katiuscia: 11:03

Wow.

Craig: 11:04

Yeah. And I, I mean, it rings up a thought of loneliness. Like one of the hardest things in life is to, to accept the loneliness and to. Get to a place of where you're fine with yourself, you're, you're at peace with yourself, but that loneliness can be, can be a son of a bitch. And so, you know, hindsight from all of this, like she, she couldn't be alone. You know, I, it was hard for me to be alone. Um, so I kind of have a little more compassion. With that and a little more understanding now that it's been many, many years and I have a beautiful wife, beautiful family that is loyal to me and, and know, we take care of each other. But yeah. So yeah, that's a common thing that happens. Um, and kind of just to stay, I guess I just stay on the timeline of, of my life where, where we were at that time. Um, and I'm just gonna spit truth. Like the truth sets us free at, at the ultimate, like we fight for freedom, right? We go through all the, this pain and hate and discontent, learn how to kill, do all these things to make sure that you're the best warrior that you can possibly be. And at the end of the day, it's like, what are we fighting for? I want fucking freedom. But what's freedom? Freedom is like to me, freedom is. Free to live my full expression without the give a fuck of who is thinking something of You ha. I care about what people think. Abso fucking. Absolutely. And I'd be lying to myself if I said that I didn't care what people think, you know? That's why I get nervous to come on a show like this or even speak about these things. That Truth will set you free. And every single person that I have ever met, and myself included, I'm this is coming from a direct experience, that little secret that you think nobody knows and you can't tell, can't. And you're carrying that and you put Kevlar around that and you, you compartmentalize it. You put it in a safe and you lock it way deep inside that consciousness, that secret. Is what's causing the pain and the suffering in you. And when you can unlock that and free it from you, all of a sudden all that weight that was being carried is gone. And so I do my best to practice living from a place of truth. So yeah, it got cheated on. That was the first time it happened again, and on on another time. And then, but me being who I am and. On a deployment and everything else. I was like, oh, well shit, it was because I was gone. You know, may maybe now if I come back, I'll just bring her back. This is where I started to do the self-hate and beat the shit outta myself. Like, you piece of shit, you got cheated on. Now you're taking her back. What kind of coward are you? Talk about fear of loneliness. You're taking back somebody that's abusive, first of all. There was like domestic abuse where I had to, make up stories with my gunny 'cause my face was all scratched up.

Katiuscia: 14:34

Oh shit.

Craig: 14:34

And beat up. Yeah. It's like this is real domestic violence in, but you know, coming from a guy standpoint, you're like, I'm not going to admit to that ever. But anyways, so I, yeah, I take her back. I, um, we have two kids together. And, my son is born and then I have to leave, I go on a deployment. and uh, yeah, I was, I don't think I was ever truly over the fact that I got cheated on. And when you're on a deployment, you have time to think time to marinate on all those things. And I didn't feel like I was ever gonna stay with her, but I started to stay with her because of my son and I come back home and I want to be with her. I wanna be with him. I wanna make sure he's protected. There's things in my life that have happened when I was younger and that I compartmentalized, that I kept a secret, and I never wanted him to have those kind of experiences to have to hold onto anything like that. To live a, live a life. Guilt-free, shame-free, as much as I could give him. And so I stayed, and then my daughter was born, and out of such, out of such a, place of like pain from being cheated on all the, the story that goes along with that, there's the beauty that arises from the muck and. My kids are, are that beauty like, um, and now they're, you know, they're 20 and, uh, 19 and 18. I have a stepson, Gavin, and it's just amazing to watch, you know, the watch them fully blossom. And from that muck of that, there was still a love there. There was something that connected, something, you know, all needed to happen for a reason. So yeah, we, um, out of that came those two and it was a beautiful thing. Uh, year eight of the Marine Corps. I was, so in 2006 I ended up going to, be an instructor for the recon school. Got to be, um, instructor of the pool, teaching people how to swim and, um, land navigation and then some patrolling. So. I got to be an instructor there that, once again, that was a time for me to stay home and try to make this marriage work that was, there was a, all the signs were there that this is not gonna work. But I did my best to not quit. And when it finally came to then it was, that was the end of it. And time to move on. I got out in 2009 and then that's when, um, I started to realize how. Wow, the civilian life is, is a whole nother battlefield. And I needed to get back overseas. I needed to get back overseas 'cause I needed to make up for some things that I wasn't proud of. You know, I missed a couple deployments where I should, I feel like I should have been there. there's, some legitimate excuses for why I missed those deployments, but, the one that hit me the hardest was. When, my gunny, my platoon sergeant, best platoon sergeant I ever worked with, Davey Lind, and, uh, they went out. I got invited to go on the team. Um, my eyes were starting to go bad at that time, so I have a keratoconus, which is a degenerative eye disease where I have to wear contacts and they have to take him out at night and all this high maintenance stuff. It's not really ideal for desert environments and deploying with the Marines. And the other part is I was trying to help, you know, make my marriage work and make it all work there. But anyways, long story short, with that, Davey Lind ends up getting hit by an IED or I think it was a, vehicle landmine, um, loses his legs. So that, that, that, uh, part of me that was like, oh my just do? I I should have been there. You know, the deployment before we were the team that was finding all the IEDs before, so we didn't get blown up and stuff. And then, and then here I missed out on this. And so there was a lot, there was a lot of work that was, has been done in the healing world of accepting myself and really being true, really being honest with myself of why I made the decisions I made and I. Honestly, through lots of therapy and, some psychedelic assisted work, I found out I found that I made those decisions in the best interest of my children. Um, so yeah, from there I, I knew I needed to kind of make up for things. I needed to be back overseas, so I. Hit up the contracting world. submitted my application, went through all that process, got on there, um, went out, did the qualifications, and I'm back overseas, back in the Middle East. Um, all my time was served in Iraq, so I knew that country pretty well. And then it was deployment after deployment. Um, I liked being over there. I hated the loneliness of, missing my family, missing my kids. Um. But I love the simplicity of life over there It's, you know, you're either gonna be, you're only worried about getting killed or getting kidnapped, and if you get killed, well then the worry is all gone. So you're really kind of accepting death, like. Yeah, whatever.

Katiuscia: 20:40

Either way.

Craig: 20:41

Yeah, either way. I'm cool. So, um,

Katiuscia: 20:44

and you had your, your unit there, your, your guys your people, right?

Craig: 20:48

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 20:48

You had all your fellows.

Craig: 20:49

Yeah. And the contract world was really cool 'cause it was like, I mean, you, you're working from all branches of the service. They all have that minimum of six years and some sort of special operations community. So they, I'm the best dudes to walk this planet in my opinion. I'm, I'm a, I I stand on the shoulders of giants for sure.

Katiuscia: 21:10

So good comradery. And that's why that loneliness wasn't there, but it was here. I I can see where that makes sense. Where it's like, well, I felt most at home. Almost there.

Craig: 21:20

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 21:20

And just the simplicity.

Craig: 21:21

Yeah. I felt really, yeah, it's good way of putting it. It's definitely, uh, I felt more at home there and it was actually one point in time I, uh, was dating my wife and we were going to the movie theater and I couldn't remember how to get to the movie theater in my own town right here. But then we saw something on the news and it was like, on this street in Baghdad, and I was like, oh yeah, if you go there, that that bread guy lives there and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and knew everything about it.

Katiuscia: 21:50

Oh, wow.

Craig: 21:50

I was like, huh, maybe I've been spending a little too much time over there. Um, but yeah, it was a, it was a, I wouldn't have changed. Anything for what I got to experience and by the guys that I got to serve next to and, um, still continue to serve next to, you know, like coming out of, coming out of contracting. The reason I stopped contracting was, um, there was an incident with, my son that he'd got the shit beat out of him by his mom, and I got a call from the cops Halloween night and uh, so I went over there and he was. He had pretty bad marks. He had gotten, swollen face bruise on his chest, choking marks on his, on his throat. So in 2016, that's when I said, okay, well I'm not going anywhere. I gotta gotta work on getting the custody of these kids and making sure they're protected. 'cause I thought they were safe and as they, as they came home, more stuff was unfolding and what was actually happening that old time. So. My kids have been in a lot of therapy and, um, we work on this together, you know, so

Katiuscia: 23:02

we're, how old were they? Like how old was he when he called you when you got the call on Halloween? How old was your son at that point?

Craig: 23:07

Uh, he was right at 10, almost 11. Oh my Yeah.

Katiuscia: 23:13

Shit.

Craig: 23:14

Yeah. So he, um, that was a pretty, you know, I. I admire my kids so much because, you know, they didn't just, I can imagine like what it feels like for a child. Like dad's always leaving, you know, and I was gone two months on, two months, two months home, you know, back and forth. So I was always gone. And then even when I was home, it was only week on, week off. So I can imagine the, the amount of like almost a feeling of abandonment from one side. You know, even though I, I wanted to be with them so bad. But they deal with that and then they, and then they have the situation that where they feel like they're safe. They're supposed to be safe. They have no idea that they're not being safe when getting bounced around all over the place. And, uh, so when I got. Custody of them. It was like we started to really unlock and my son went and spent, um, about 10 weeks in blue fire wilderness therapy, living out of a backpack. And I celebrated his 13th birthday out there. So it was, uh, it was really, I admire them. They're like, they're really like, you know, they're, they turn, they turn the negative into a positive really, really well, so, and they're, you know, they're. They're the reason that I'm, I can really say that they're, the reason that I'm still um, for my, my mo moment of the dark night of the soul was, um, I was finding myself in a place of where I can't sleep, can't, like, feel comfortable at night. I'm actually dreading going to sleep, you know, after the, after not deploying anymore. That became like the place where no problem sleeping over there. No problem. Like every time I'd come home, it was like, now it's like, really I'm home. Okay. Now that's when all of a sudden it's like I find myself setting up a cot underneath the stairs. You know, you have those little areas

Katiuscia: 25:32

mm-hmm.

Craig: 25:32

In the under little coves. Mm-hmm. Like little cool little, uh, caves, you know,

Katiuscia: 25:36

Harry Potter Closets?

Craig: 25:37

Yeah. That Harry Potter closet.

Katiuscia: 25:38

Yeah.

Craig: 25:39

I've set up a cot under there. It was like, um, just like my little place where I could go and. It kind of mimicked like my setting overseas in a, in a way. And I would be up all night just like wandering around, I don't know what I'm doing with my life now. Who am I without this? all the guys are still doing the things. And here I am at home, you know, at that point of like growing a garden trying my like, is this what I do with my hands anyways, long. Wow. The, yeah. That Dark Night of the Soul was, um, so I had, um, I had a, a Glock 19 that I had practiced and trained with for getting the contracting gig.. I had to like, you know, that's a weapon of choice is a Glock 17, but I had to Glock 19. That's where, and the, and I was falling in love with, uh, scotch. So me and Scotch had a long relationship for about a year until my, my, uh, my brother from another mother Chops, he, uh, he called me out and was like, Hey, you're slipping, bro. And that's where I kind of woke up to it. But,

Katiuscia: 26:55

Craig, how far after you got custody of your kids did this start happening? Like, did you start feeling this, um, let's, it sounds kind of like a trapped feeling or like a confusion trapped, like waking up in a dream world.

Craig: 27:09

Yeah,

Katiuscia: 27:09

but like, what do I, what am I supposed to do? Is this my life right now? How far after you stopped deploying or going to do contract work was this?

Craig: 27:18

It was, it wasn't too long after that. 'cause I was already home. I was already home for a few months and I was already starting to experience, you know, before I got custody of them. yeah. 'cause it was like 2016 was like, okay, I'm not deploying now anymore, but I'd already been home for like, almost a full summer.

Katiuscia: 27:40

Okay. ' Craig: cause I was like. I actually had neck surgery, that's what it was. I had neck surgery fusion C five six 'cause I feeling in my left and so it was like right around that time, that's when things started getting weird, like darker. Um, yeah, it was okay.

Craig: 28:00

It got, it started getting into like, you know, suicidal thoughts. Started popping it up and then it's like, all right, could I do this? In the back of my mind, there's this willow whisper that's always constantly there. He is like, fuck no, you're not gonna do that. But when the other thoughts start to take over and it starts to like, it's, it's drowning out the whisper of truth like that. And when you're, you know, boozing it up, trying to drown it, it's gonna start showing itself in pretty awful ways. Long story short to it. I was on that cot at night by myself. It's like two in the morning, and I had the Glock sitting there on the, my little made up nightstand with a bottle of Dalmore because this great scotch. And so then I'm like, all right, I'm looking at the gun and I'm like, I know what I need to do I know what, I know What happens when you unholster a gun? Like we don't pull this out unless it's time to eliminate the threat. Right now, I feel like I'm the threat. I'm the one that's like causing pain and and suffering in my life. That pain, hate and discontent that at bootcamp, that was like, boom. This is how you get to be the most intense, killing machine that you possibly can be. Pain, hate, discontent, you know, they beat it into you. And now that pain, hate, and discontent became this pain, hate and discontent of around the people I love the and I was hurting them. I could tell, or I felt like I was hurting them. Ultimately I'm hurting myself. So that dark night of the soul, here's the contemplation. I've got a little bit of scotch left in this bottle. So I got the Glock here. I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna finish this scotch before I pick And that's gonna be the, that's gonna be time to eliminate the threat.

Katiuscia: 29:53

Holy shit.

Craig: 29:54

And it, um, so as I'm. Shooting back the last little bit of the bottle. I have a very clear vision of my children come in and it's like, and that's when I was like, well, that's not gonna happen. And um, what's funny about that, that gun is it, uh, I put it in my console, my truck and my truck got broke into like three days later or something like that, and that gun got stolen. I was like, Roger that. You, you contemplate suicide with that thing and now I'm gonna take it away from you. So that whisper wasn't so, uh, whispery.

Katiuscia: 30:35

Wow.

Craig: 30:36

So, yeah, it um, and that's when it was like, okay, cool. I understand. I understand. I have these thoughts. I understand that I'm not gonna do anything about these thoughts. I know that they're gonna continue to come up. I don't know what the fuck to do with this. Now I've gotta keep my shit together so I can go through this custody battle that's taken me two years and all the money I made from contracting to, to keep them and ultimately 'cause it's their safety is the number one thing in this world. I'm that I'm their father, I'm supposed to protect And, um, when, when you find out that they're not being protected when you were gone, it sucks. It really pisses you off. yeah. So then I. I'm sitting there and it's kind of like, I don't know what to I'm like, you know, I start smoking some cannabis, like, gonna grow a garden. Maybe this will get a warrior in the garden. I'll try this. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Um, I was raised Mormon. but the, church thing never really jived with me like it does for others. And so I was. I was really kind of just lost in this confusion but I'm trying to maintain stability as much as I can to a stable ground for my children. And then, um, what shift? It was like my wife is an incredible, incredible woman, like strong, confident, intelligent, beautiful, all these things. It's true. and loyal, she doesn't need, she doesn't need all the, she's not the type that is fri afraid to be alone. Like, she'll sit with herself and, and be with herself and then she's fine with that. You know? So with her strength and. And then her just going through whatever we watched, I think it was my brother-in-law said, Hey, you gotta check out this movie. It's called, um, I'm Not Your Guru, Tony Robbins. so we watched it and she's like, I don't know, but I've gotta go. I gotta go to UPW, Unlock The power Within. I'm like, hell yeah, you do. Go for it. And so she goes, uh, this is like, kind of like her first trip. By herself or to, um, I can't remember what it was like near Sacramento or something. And, um, she comes back from that and it was like, do the lights are on. Like she's, she's alive. Like she looks different. And I'm like, uh, I want that secretly. I'm like, what the fuck? I. I almost suck started a Glock and now you're all happy. This is not fair. This is bullshit.

Katiuscia: 33:30

This is crap..

Craig: 33:30

That's inside thought. Um, but uh, on the outside I'm like, oh, fuck yeah, dude, this is awesome. But no, seriously, I want to go. So we booked the next UPW and um, we went together and, and I'm like a light switch. I'm all, I'm either all the way in or I'm not in at all. And so, we go through UPW and then they're, you know, we're walking a fire. I'm like, hell yeah, this is sick.

Katiuscia: 33:58

Nice.

Craig: 33:58

This is something that people can't normally do, you know? And um, so then of course I sign up for everything. I'm like, Mastery University. How deep does this well go, let's go all the way in. So we spent the next, I think it was over three years to get through all the courses of. Of Tony Robbins. It was blast. It was like, you know. You know, like we were doing earlier and be like doing some priming before we get onto the air. I got, I get the nervous system set,

Katiuscia: 34:28

so hold on. I have to just say though, this was, this was it for you? Like you were wondering what you're supposed to be doing and am I supposed to be the, the warrior gardener? Like all of these things and then you found this, so this was now. Got your mind into a place where, okay, this is amazing. I love this.

Craig: 34:44

Yeah. So I had that like kind of floating stage where I'm like, gardening and smoking weed in the garden. You know, like, I'm gonna be with the plants.

Katiuscia: 34:51

Yeah.

Craig: 34:51

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 34:52

I,

Craig: 34:52

I made some amazing salsa that year.

Katiuscia: 34:55

Oh, nice.

Craig: 34:55

But um, yeah, so then we got into the, the Tony Robbins stuff and it was like, all right, what the fuck am I gonna do with my life? What I'm supposed to be doing something? Where's my mission and purpose? So I started a restoration company. Great idea for my brother-in-law. he helped me get it going and, we did that for about a year. And it was my buddy who was a British World Marine Commando, Jim Fuller. He, me and him are doing this together and we're under these crawl spaces. We're in Tyvek suit and gas masks, headlamps on, and we're under this crawlspace just miserable. And I'm like, we look at each other under the gas mask, like, how'd we get here, mate? Like, what the fuck are we actually doing? And was like this moment of clarity like, oh, something's gotta change here. I am not meant to go from. You know, leading teams and being a part of a team in battlefields doing the most extreme things to, I'm under a crawl base filled with shit like,

Katiuscia: 36:02

yeah.

Craig: 36:02

Sucks.

Katiuscia: 36:03

Yeah. No, doesn't, doesn't sound like a fair trade either.

Craig: 36:06

No, dude, not at all. No. So that was a, that was a short little stint, but it was cool 'cause I, you know, started my own business with. that Tony Robbins stuff in the background, like, you know, you go through Business Mastery and so he kind of shows you how to set it all up and do all these things to make it go well.

Katiuscia: 36:23

Awesome.

Craig: 36:23

And it was going really well. I think there's still still some pretty cool videos out there for the restoration company. We, we tried to put the spin of, you know, like. Doing a hit on a house with, with restoration equipment.

Katiuscia: 36:37

Awesome.

Craig: 36:38

Like having as, as much fun as you can.

Katiuscia: 36:40

I have to find it. Good.

Craig: 36:42

Yeah. So then we went from, uh, that didn't, that didn't last too long. And then I got a call from, one of my best bros in the world, Brian Jacqueline. Um, yeah, talk about Giants. Uh, I definitely am standing amongst giants when I mention these kind of names and, um. They put together him and some other friends, Matt Ketting, Chris Sit, Steve Krueger, they put together a, a company called Invictus International. And, they were running, they were starting up some California operations. So they invited me on to, run the California operations. And I was like, cool. perfect. I need to maybe if I'm back around the guys. I can, I can be somewhere in the middle, like danger zone and at home, like, can I get both best of both worlds. I really love this. And um, and at the time my son was just getting out of the blue fire wilderness therapy, so he needed, he wanted to shift as well. we've always loved California. I don't care what people say about it. It can, it's a beautiful state. Politics, whatever. I don't care about that. I can go surfing and snowboarding in the same day. There's no better life to me.

Katiuscia: 38:04

Right.

Craig: 38:04

And the water is just the answer to all my prayers. So anyways, we move out there to Torrance, California for a little while and um, we're. You know, running the operations there. I'm working directly with my bro, Chris Sit, and then Invictus International is headquartered in Vegas. They run a lot of, operations throughout those two states quite a bit. So I'm running the. I'm running the, California area and this is perfect, man. I'm like in Torrance. If I cross that way, uh, if I cross the highway over there, that's into bad guy country. But this little bubble right here, this is safety Redondo Beach area. Somewhat safe. You still get shootings and everything. So I'm like connecting with the cops and everything. I'm like, sweet. One man, lone survivor. I'm, I'm like, I'm operating by myself. I've got my, my work car that's got. Armored doors on it. I'm like, sick. Let's go through the, you know, let's go through some of these areas that are a little more dangerous.

Katiuscia: 39:06

Watts the Compton all right there?

Craig: 39:08

Yeah. Well, one, one funny story was about Compton. Like, we moved there and, my wife ended up having to do a, she never had like custody agreement with her, her ex, they were never married and so she ended up having to stay to get this custody thing figured out. So me and my kids and my dog. Load up a, I don't know, a big 36 what? A 26 foot truck. Moving truck. We loaded this big moving truck and me, my two kids and my dog are driving to California. We're gonna move in. And so we have my kids like, this is how badass they are. Like, they're like, ride and die, man. Like let's just do this. So we moved to California, we moved them all. They helped me move this whole moving truck. It's just me and me and those two and the dog running around. And we get the house moved in. And then later on, Aundrea and Gavin come and join us. Um, I got totally off track there. What did I say?

Katiuscia: 40:07

Compton You had a story about Compton.

Craig: 40:09

So, so we get out there and then, uh, my son's, he's a hell of an athlete, so he's like. I wanna, I wanna play basketball, dad. I was like, cool. Well, I'm right in the middle of work, like literally moved there. I had to fly my mom out there because I needed to fly to New York to do a, Invictus experience thing with Neiman Marcus. Oh. So I'm like, mom staying there with the kids. I'm like, man, whatever. And then I come back and now it's just me and the kids for a couple weeks. Well, Levi wants to. play basketball. I'm like, cool. I don't really have time to look up basketball place, so you figure it out. Tell me where you want to go. And, uh, he's like, all right, dad, I got this. I can't remember the name of it is like, LA All Stars or something like that. And he's like, all right. I found this place. and I look it up and I'm like, this is in Compton. So I hit up my, my buddy that grew up in, in the La California area. I'm like, so is Compton okay to go there? He's like, white boy stays outta Compton. I'm like, Roger that. Then I call the coach and the coach, he's like, oh no dude, it's not that bad, you know, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I'm scared. Okay. Yeah. Alright, we're gonna go to Compton. Oh, I'm like Levi. So I treat it like a full blown like operation move. Now I like brief everybody on this. Okay? My, everybody being Levi, Lexi, and the dog. Like this is the plan. Okay, Lex, you're gonna stay home. You got a phone. Just in case we need QRF, this is what we're gonna do. QRF is quite Quick Reaction Force. Got it. Cool. And then I'm like spinning up Levi's and then we get up, get into the vehicle, and I'm like, all right, this is what the plan is. We're not rolling our windows down for anything. If this happens, this happened, blah, blah blah. Give him a full mission brief like this kid's like, what the fuck? He's like, you

Katiuscia: 42:12

just wanna play ball?

Craig: 42:13

Yeah. And I've got my go bag there. I'm like. Oh, all right. Shit goes down. Like this is here, this is here, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna push through cross load, R point, whatever. And uh, we get into, we take off and he's freaked out. He's, he's like looking everywhere, like super paranoid.

Katiuscia: 42:32

You said once a marine. Always a marine.

Craig: 42:34

Oh dude. It was like,

Katiuscia: 42:35

this is it. This

Craig: 42:35

is you. It was, yeah, it was it, it was all the way in. And I'm like, loving it though too. 'cause I'm like, hell yeah dude. Look at me. Me and my boy are on a mission now. Nice. And we get into, I think it was like South Central, whatever that road is that there, and then we turn the radio on and it's like, it's like that rap song is coming on of that street. I'm like, oh shit. Okay. Cool. Anyways, we, long story short, we make it into, uh, we make it to the basketball, practice and continued going to Compton for basketball practice.

Katiuscia: 43:10

Okay.

Craig: 43:11

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 43:11

All good. No problems.

Craig: 43:12

Nope.

Katiuscia: 43:13

He made friends and everything.

Craig: 43:14

No issues. Yeah,

Katiuscia: 43:15

there you go.

Craig: 43:16

He's got all kinds of friends now. Yeah. Anyways, so yeah, we spent some time in Torrance, California. Um, Torrance, California was really cool 'cause now I was able to like be surfing again, like really feeling cool in this place. And you can make it in LA dude. anywhere, like for real. It's way expensive, blah, all these things. But we found a way to find true harmony with our family in the place that is really chaotic through the ocean, through the beach and just, you know, we were blessed with a, a beautiful rental that we got to rent and, um, COVID hits and we had the best COVID. I think I've got some videos of, of my house. The animal house, like we had a half pipe in the side yard, a trampoline. I ended up making a tarp pool, so with a, with even a water feature in it. So my wife had a place to wade around in the pool, kept it treated and everything.

Katiuscia: 44:19

I love it. It

Craig: 44:20

was awesome. Um,

Katiuscia: 44:21

I love that you had a good experience in LA with COVID.

Craig: 44:24

Yeah,

Katiuscia: 44:25

because I mean, I was in San Diego at that time and it was just. It was really what each person made of it, because

Craig: 44:32

totally

Katiuscia: 44:32

the stipulations of California were just so heavy. So it's like all the people who rebelled and were like, fuck this, I'm not listening to this. You don't want me to, you're making the beaches illegal. Like this is all this state is for, is the beach The beach, the mountain? Whatcha talking about?

Craig: 44:45

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 44:45

So I love the people who rebelled. I feel they're the ones who probably got out of COVID the least affected where everyone else was more that followed the rules.

Craig: 44:53

Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia: 44:55

So good for you.

Craig: 44:56

We're definitely not rule followers. Good. We wanna, we wanna bend it. Um, yeah, so then we were in Torrance. my grandpa gets sick and um, and that's when things started to shift for me in a way that I would never see coming. It was like, um. So grandpa gets sick, he's older, he's, you know, dealing with his health issues. long story short on that, grandpa passes away about 2019. Um, and I'm devastated. Like, it, it broke something like it, it broke that Kevlar that was guarding my heart. And uh, when that broke, it was like. I mean, the guy had so much influence on my life. Like he taught me all about the outdoors, taught me about hunting, fishing, all of it. Some of my best childhood memories is with him, you know, on the fishing boat or hunting in salmon, Idaho, and, going fishing on the salmon for steelhead. And so when he passes it, it hurts. It opens up something in me that is like. Yeah, you just, I never saw it coming. So two o'clock in the morning, I'm, I'm bawling my eyes out and my wife's like, you okay? And I'm like, fuck, no, I am not okay at all. Like, something's really fucked up. I'm feeling so much tension and pressure and like, I mean you got, you know, living in LA tension and pressure finances and all that stuff. And so, and now this happens and I'm like, alright. I write a letter to him, and I'm just saying, I, my, the number one premises of the letter is no more procrastination in any sense of the word. So whatever your sense of that word is. For me, it's like I'm not putting off anything anymore. I wanna surf. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go surf as much as I can every day, every morning I'm gonna be out in that water. That's where I found my healing So I, I'm making my way to the water and every single time I make my way to the water, I'm getting in at like five in the morning. So it's dark still, and I just, I start paddling out and it's like the little inside thought is like, look at you doing it. Good job. then, then I would just go paddle out beyond the surf zone. And then I would just sit there, um, sit there and just. Feel the ocean, feel the way, like the, the, motion, the movement of the sea. And it just feels like, and I would just stare off into the horizon, just sit in it and like, you know, I, I did grow up Mormon, so I, I have a relationship in, you know, Christ in Jesus and, in God. And so I pray to that. I pray to my grandpa. Part of that procrastination was no more procrastination with my relationship with God. And so that is what I started to connect with at what I directly experience, what I feel is right, not anybody telling me what is what. And so I throw myself into surfing. I start to clean up myself, like no drinking, cut it out completely. Not even a little bit. I go totally sober. I even go, I'm like, how clean can I get? Because I start to feel like this deeper connection with like, and I, don't care what you call it, I call it God, it's spirit, it's divine. It's, it's the movement of what is animating us as human beings. That everything and everything. So as I clean myself up, I get clearer and clearer. This connection becomes clearer and clearer, and I'm starting to feel something. It's like giving me this feeling of like, you're doing it. You're okay. Like, just stay with this. Stay with this. And so I even go vegetarian for like nine months. Like, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna see how clean I can get. If you're

Katiuscia: 49:15

gonna go, you're gonna go hard. Yeah. That

Craig: 49:17

light's

Katiuscia: 49:18

it. The light switch, it's like,

Craig: 49:20

yeah. So then I, yeah, so I'm, I'm, I'm driving into that, you know, I'm like doing my. I'm surfing every morning, staying super clean. I'm doing Wim Hof breath work and all the things that Tony Robbins taught me. You know, I'm journaling, I'm doing yoga. How flexible can I get, starting to explore maybe going into the fire department. Um, so do some ride-alongs there. Just trying any way that I can just, really settle myself with, with this, the, the grief that like, this is my first time, you know, I've lost. Buddies. but to have somebody that has taught you something at a core level is like, holy shit, you lose that. that hurts in a way that I was like, I need to understand why. How does this hurt so bad? And, um, part of the, another, part of the things that I didn't, I was like, I'm not gonna procrastinate anymore. So I went and got my pilot's license. I've always wanted to fly, so I was like, just went and started flying.

Katiuscia: 50:21

Nice.

Craig: 50:22

Yeah, so that was cool. It was all, and I started to find this thing that was like, you know, with flying, with surfing, it's this thing of where everything goes into this one little focus where now nothing is interrupting, there's no room for anything else. I have to focus on this 'cause I'm flying. If I screw this up, I die surfing. It's like, it's not like you're gonna die, but it's like. It's those moments where you like catch the wave and it's just like all where is gone in that instant. Just like you're riding the energy of the world. That's spectacular. And um,

Katiuscia: 51:05

so with surfing, with surfing, you're saying,

Craig: 51:07

I mean, flying and surfing, same type of thing. Like it gives you that focus. It's like, you know, and, and now I've found, I went and drove my brother-in-law's Porsche the other day. I was like, oh, weird. This racing a fast car does the same thing.

Katiuscia: 51:20

Oh.

Craig: 51:21

Like we can get into this focus of like, none of the world exists except for this right here. So I was finding a lot of, um. A lot of ease with myself and settling into the grief, knowing the grief is not going anywhere. I have to feel all of it. We're meant to feel all of it. So I'm starting to feel pretty stable. My buddy, he looks like Jesus. He's a former Marine as well. I'm, he's my surf buddy. So we have like board meetings in, in the mornings and he comes over for dinner and he knows that I'm, I'm clean, super clean. I'm like working with this. And we've had some pretty personal conversations and it was like, he's like, uh, you know, there's, there's this, uh, psychedelic stuff going on, you know, DMT. And I'm like, he's just kinda like throws it out nonchalantly and. You know, if you ever feel called to it. And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Dude, you hippie son of a bitch. I love you, but I'm sober, uh, vegetarian now. And no, I'm not gonna do that. Are you fucking crazy? but that little seed was planted and it, and I'm like, that's a weird thing for like, you know, my, I'm just like, you, you fucking hippie. Like,

Katiuscia: 52:40

yeah.

Craig: 52:41

And then, um, it was like. Three months later, something like, I don't know the timeline, but my, wife's mom started getting sick, diagnosed with cancer. I have a very close relationship with Christ at this time. I'm like very, I'm like pure communication, like it's direct and. This happens and then it starts to swing my wife in a way that, into a cycle of grief. So she's going back and forth back to Idaho to be with her mom as much as she can. Well, it's like now my birthday 2020, Yeah. It's like about to be my birthday. Um, and somehow I. I got curious enough about the DMT that I started going down this rabbit hole of DMT and what this is, and it just starts scaring the shit out of me. I'm like, what? Are you fucking kidding me? This does not look okay. But something in me is saying, something in me is saying yes. And it's so weird, like it can't really explain why there's a part of you saying yes when this is so fucking scary. And so I hit my buddy up. I'm like, all right, bro. So can I come over at like five in the morning, do this DMT, and then go surfing? Because that's why I'm doing it for my birthday. It's my birthday morning. You know, I like to take my birthdays to places where you don't normally go. Bootcamp at 23, I'm now here. Um, so he's like, for sure, bro, it's your ceremony, man. We can, we can do whatever calls to you. And I was like. Right on. So, uh, my wife's in Idaho at the time. I drive over in the morning, do my normal surf session in the morning, but this time we're gonna interrupt it with a little, smoking of DMT. I don't know what that is. I don't really truly know what any of it is, but, something in me is calling to it and I'm saying yes to it, and I show up with my honesty of I'm fucking nervous. I'm actually really scared. I know that's funny to say from being somebody that has deployed to the places where we've done, but I'm scared. And so we went, he does all the things, s saging and all this stuff. I'm like, yep, do your hippy dippy stuff. Here we go. but it's working. I'm like, oh, I'm feeling calmer. Cool. So then he takes me through the ceremony of smoking, the DMT and the one thing he tells me is, all you have to remember is just let go. So I go under with the, uh, smoking the DMT and there's this part where I'm like really scared and it gets really dark. Like this is right at the beginning. This is like a 15 minute ride with this medicine, and it gets really dark. And then the, the, I just remembered that let go and it was like. As soon as I thought, not even speak, it was like, let go. It was like, whew. And all I can say is it's, it was, I was in the, the presence of God, angels, and there's no arguing it like it was direct experience with a medicine that took me out of myself to experience what I truly am. And from that direct experience, I know that my ancestors, your ancestors, all of it is always watching over us. Always allowing, and just helping and encouraging, and the message was clear in that moment was, continue to follow that whisper that you listened to that brought you here. And so I was like, roger that, but I don't want to go anymore. I don't wanna, I wanna stay here. This is nice. This is like, oh, there's no pain here. This is so sweet. And they're like, Nope, you have more, you have more to do down there. And uh, so then it's like this feeling of coming back to the body and it was like a radio, in the back of my head, it was like a, and it felt like I was blinking my eyes and it was like, but I wasn't blinking my eyes. I had a blindfold on. It was just like internal blink. And every time I blink it would go C, C, C, and the next thing you know, it's like I'm in my body again. Now I, I'm just like, holy shit. I think all I said was, fuck. And I just start crying and my, here's my, my marine buddy holding me. Like, just cry it out, bro. Just cry it out. And you're like, fuck me, man. This sucks. But it sucks. It feels so good to just release whatever the fuck was trapped in there. And now to know that I'm like, I'm held, I'm, I'm taken care of. I'm supported in all directions and, um. You know, and, and then knowing that I, I listened to something in me that said, this is just, it was saying yes and I listened. So now it's like, can I tune into that? Can I tune into that whisper of the heart? Can I really listen to it and allow this to guide me through everything? So. We walk out of this little studio apartment in Manhattan Beach, and it's like, the sun's just starting to come up. And I'm like, it's a whole, no, new world, like, holy shit. We paddle out in that, that surf zone that, uh, it's like El Porto. it can get a little dicey with people there like it's. There's a lot of people to try to surf, you know, and if the waves are good, then they're, gonna be out there. I paddle out and I'm like, yep, I'm just gonna paddle out beyond there and just hang out here. There's a little too much, they all need to go do what I just did. Just, just have some peace around all of it.

Katiuscia: 59:18

So I love that even though at first when you were thinking of it and you're, you're a hippie buddy. That you were scared, but there was that voice and there was that feeling like you're still being led to it. Mm-hmm. So I think it's just a beautiful testament also to, we can do shit that we're scared of, especially if you have a feeling that something's pulling you legitimately, like we're not supposed to go into everything completely confident. I mean, otherwise life would just be easier for everybody, I feel. It's that. Almost that conflicting thought of, I'm scared to do this, but it's like that's number one. That's where growth happens, is in those moments that we're scared shitless to do something. But two, it's, you can find healing through things like that. Because if it was easy, if everyone was just thinking it was so easy, everyone, no one would be in the positions that some people are in, right? Like no one would need it. There would be no need for it. So I love that. Even though you were scared of it. You still had the calling to it.

Craig: 1:00:16

Yeah. And it's like, that's one of the things that like I, I was taught and then I carried on to teach in the in when I was an instructor in the Marines is like all we're doing is expanding your comfort zone. Your best life is lived outside of that comfort zone. So that kind of echoed in my mind as well. And I think that it echoes in the minds of every being. Like, we know that we are just being comfortable here. We're trying our best to be. Just fine. I'm fine, I'm good. But there's part of you that's still curious. Like, but what if, what if I looked out that window or went out that door or opened that door? Like, what could happen? You know? And so that, yeah, it's, that's a, a beautiful way of putting it.

Katiuscia: 1:01:04

I think a lot of people are trained to shut off that curiosity because life gets heavy and not, not heavy emotionally all the time for everybody, but. Heavy in obligation in what you're supposed to do. Oh, you're, you have to provide for your family. You have to provide for da, da, da. And it's just becomes too much where it's like, fuck it. I can't think of anything else. Just go forward. But in going forward, you are, it's like the flying the plane, but like not in a cool way because you're just tunnel visioning through and you're not open to anything else. Yeah. Whereas when you leave that space for curiosity, that's a beautiful thing because then it's like, oh, there is more. Yeah. Oh, I can check this out. Yeah. Like, what else is there? What else?

Craig: 1:01:43

I love the way you put that. That's beautiful. Yeah, it's like, um, I think that we're, my experience, I try to only speak from my experience because each one of us has this perspective and we are literally just projecting what we are experiencing in, into the world. So the conditioning of us as the person. We were born into a home with loving parents, maybe not so loving, and maybe you found yourself in whatever situation I was born into, loving parents that did their fucking damnedest to make sure that I felt loved, cared for, and to allow me to express myself in whatever way that that felt needed. But there's still conditioning. As we're growing up, we're still, you know, that child that says, we say, no, don't do that, that that first little spot is like, oh, that doesn't feel good. So we start to like from that condition. We start to like block the precious heart. We wanna, we wanna protect this at all costs. This hurt. I don't wanna do that anymore, so I'm gonna do it this way now. And then, you know, the next thing happens and the next thing happens and the next thing, and then next thing you know, you're an adult and you're like, what happened to that little child that didn't give a shit and just had fun running and playing and you know, looking at things like, with so much curiosity, we see the world nakedly, we see it without the labels, but this adult has been like hammered and chiseled into this person that you will. Operate in this way. Mm. And then we get so used to, okay, I'm safe. I've got my job. It pays the bills, I've got this. You know? And then for me, it's like I just have this constant yearning of like, what else is there? What else is going beyond this comfort zone? Like even coming onto here is like I'm stepping out of my comfort zone. Like,

Katiuscia: 1:03:50

I'm grateful you did. Thank you.

Craig: 1:03:51

Oh, I'm so grateful you invited me. It gives me that opportunity to look at the fear, look at the nervousness. Yeah. My daughter remind me last night that he's like, she's like, well, dad, nervousness is just excitement. I was like, wisdom from the children. The children, the children, the little children.

Katiuscia: 1:04:11

They're so smart. They're, it's because exactly what you said, I, I love that because. When you have a kid who literally has no bias against anything, they're just living their life. They're friends with everyone. Same way your kid's going to Compton like, yeah, yeah, I'm friends with everybody. Nobody gives a shit, but society and like everything, then you start listening to the external things, and that's how people are, I don't wanna say molded, but it's almost like a brainwashing because it's giving, it's tainting everybody.

Craig: 1:04:42

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:04:42

In a way where you're just like, fuck, I just wanna be a cool, live my life the way I wanna live it. And not care and not see things for what you're trying to make them be.

Craig: 1:04:51

Yeah,

Katiuscia: 1:04:51

like the orderly, it's, I think we've, we're all. The goal is to make everyone a, so I mean, and I can go down conspiracy rabbit holes about that of just like soldiers in like the not fun way though. Soldiers of the man, soldiers of getting shit done for another person's agenda or work when you're like, I just wanna do, I wanna live for me.

Craig: 1:05:11

Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia: 1:05:11

I don't wanna pay taxes like, like we weren't even supposed to. Like, I don't wanna be taxes status,

Craig: 1:05:16

I don't wanna be taxes,

Katiuscia: 1:05:17

but like I don't, but shit like that where you're like, nobody saw anything growing up. So I love that your daughter said. Nervousness is just excitement.

Craig: 1:05:25

Oh, dude, the wisdom coming outta these kids. Yeah, like all of 'em is, I mean, we can really, I mean, wisdom is found in the truth of every, every being. If we just look, if we just see them of the divine being they are. No matter how much you hate somebody, no matter how much you love somebody that is found within you, whatever you are admiring. The reason you are admiring it and are able to see it is because it is in you. That greatness, that goodness, but also it goes the other way. So we can have more compassion for everything in all people, all beings, that we're all doing our level best in this fucking crazy world that we live in, that we're calling life. You know, it's, it's a wild little rodeo we're riding.

Katiuscia: 1:06:11

I love that what you're seeing. It's because it's in you too. Yeah. I love that.

Craig: 1:06:16

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:06:16

That's a beautiful thing. So wait, tell me about, did you have, did you smoke that again?

Craig: 1:06:20

Oh, yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:06:21

Okay. Okay.

Craig: 1:06:21

That was just the beginning.

Katiuscia: 1:06:22

That was the beginning.

Craig: 1:06:22

Okay. That was the beginning of psychedelics at a level that, um, you know, and I, I just wanna mention something like I get, I get very passionate about this. This is, is medicine. This is. And if you don't understand this, you are just being ignorant because while the pharmaceutical companies are dumping everything down, your guts

Katiuscia: 1:06:49

poison,

Craig: 1:06:50

straight up poison, causing people more problems. That is not medicine. That is a medication that continues to put a bandaid over something that needs to be another bandaid over another bandaid, over another bandaid. And this little cycle that they've got you trapped into is the pharmaceutical highway that keeps them rich. Like that's fucking bullshit. And now you wanna talk medicine. Medicine. What is real fucking medicine? Well, first of all, it's growing from the ground. It's not made in a lab. Although I did partake in the, uh, MDMA study for getting it FDA approved, which is a beautiful experience, but the medicines, so we, a, a way to look at medicine is like, you're not going to need more and more and more and up the dose. This is getting to the root of the, of the problem and what is the problem. Pain and suffering. Pain and suffering that is created in the mind. All the things, all the problems is the mind itself. It's your thoughts that are creating all of it. So if we can get you to a place where we can eliminate that thought process that was causing all the pain, that separate self, the ego, as we like to label it, now we begin to touch into the truth that is the ultimate fucking healing. So now, instead of band-aiding this. Saying, oh, I've got this and now I've got this now. Oh, the anxiety's over here. Now I can't sleep, so I need this and blah, blah, blah. And if I went to, if I took everything the VA gave me, I'd probably be dead for sure. Or high as fuck.

Katiuscia: 1:08:37

That's nuts.

Craig: 1:08:38

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:08:39

But even the VA, well,

Craig: 1:08:40

yeah, so I get, I get really passionate about this because you know, there's, I know there's another side of the world that doesn't even understand, you know, people just. Think back to the hippie days and everybody's just doing psychedelics and, and doing all this crazy shit. This is not that. This is a sacred ceremony. This is sacred work, connecting people to who they truly are from the divine level. Without the ego, without that separate self that was conditioned into being, this is how I'm supposed to be back to that child. Back to the truth of, of who you really are. That's medicine. And so these medicines are, are, we take them in a, in a way that is, is very deeply ceremonial. The tribes have been doing this forever. Our ancestors. you didn't just come to war or go to war, come back and go back into the family. You went to war, you saw the medicine, man, you sat with the medicine, you sat with the medicine man, and they held the ceremony while you worked yourself back out to rid yourself of the trauma that had been collecting inside of you.

Katiuscia: 1:09:53

That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense that that would've been how. How it happened, because otherwise, how, how, how do they expect it to happen? Even today?

Craig: 1:10:02

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:10:03

For everybody.

Craig: 1:10:03

Yeah. And so now you have a 20 year war plus. I mean, it just, war just keeps going. And they're wondering why we've got people killing themselves. We're not taking the time to let them heal. Heal at a level that is beyond what doctors are gonna tell you. It's this feeling, this, it's the direct experience of healing. Direct experience of, you know, the truth inside you. There's that whisper inside you. When we get to the root of that, when we get to the core of who you are, the truth will, will come through in a way that is, there is no question about it, and it's your direct experience. It's not me telling you that this is what you're gonna feel. You're gonna feel all better now, blah, blah, blah. No. Those psychedelic experiences could be a fucking treacherous time for you too. But you're being held in a space that can help hold the space for you, to allow you to get to a place where you finally let the fuck go. And when you let go, you're letting go of that perceived self. Once you let go of that perceived self, what arises from there is your truth. So yeah, onto the psychedelics.

Katiuscia: 1:11:24

Wow. Yeah,

Craig: 1:11:25

sorry, I just had put that disclaimer out there. I love it. Like I'm very passionate about it and I, you know, I was, I was really secretive about this for a, a long time and I had a, buddy at a Jiujitsu, a marine buddy, um, that did suicide by COP at Star in, just right over there in Star Park. And that's when I was like, yep, I don't fucking care. You don't like what I'm doing, you don't like my fire, then don't come around because, 'cause this is truth. This is, this is helping save lives in a big, big way.

Katiuscia: 1:12:01

Before you jump into talking about the psychedelics, do you find, well, from your experience, I will, I guess pre ask you, do you find that a lot of other veterans are really benefiting from this?

Craig: 1:12:12

Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia: 1:12:13

Okay.

Craig: 1:12:13

Yeah, definitely.

Katiuscia: 1:12:14

Because I was looking at stats for. Just veteran suicide. And it was, it's horrifying. Like to think of, and then it was the, the note on it was these people were not being treated by the VA for the year prior to their death. And I was like, okay, well, but even if they were like, would that have prevented, what are you doing for treatment anyway? And just not being in that world. I don't know what it's like. I don't know what it's like to obviously deploy and then come back but it's just like. What, what do you think the disconnect is? Is it because no one is getting this proper, or this like, proper sit down or just the time isn't being taken with them?

Craig: 1:12:54

Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia: 1:12:55

So you kind of re acclimate them? 'cause you're not the first person I've heard it from. As of when you come back from being deployed normal life is like, okay, what, what the fuck is this?

Craig: 1:13:04

Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia: 1:13:04

what do you mean driving on the road? what is, what is this?

Craig: 1:13:07

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:13:07

So is it just, do you think it's that? You think it's just like, okay, you're back. Thanks for, thanks for coming over. Like go back to normal life.

Craig: 1:13:15

Don't, yeah. I think in my opinion it, 'cause it, you know, this is, I guess from my experience, um, there was nobody that, like if you take it back to our ancestral days, like way, way back when these medicines were, were used to heal, there was, there was the, the wise man, the old shaman, the elder, right? They talked. They just knew as the tribe, like this is what's going on. And then we, they were educated in it and so then they, there's no question about it. You're doing, this is how we get you better. You're having this blah, blah, blah. This is the true medicine of that. Our society has gone, gone away far away from that, and now it's, you know, into pharmaceuticals and the VA, I mean, I like. I'm not here to bag on the VA. The VA has helped me in, in so many ways and they do everything they can to help and they're restricted to what they are able to offer. But yeah, I think it's more than anything, it's just an education piece. Like people are not educated in the, the fact that of, of what these medicines are, that can be very scary because we are, we're letting go of that perceived self. And that's the hardest part.

Katiuscia: 1:14:36

Control.

Craig: 1:14:37

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:14:37

You're also letting go of like the control of your mind really.

Craig: 1:14:41

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:14:41

And just what you know to be true. So yeah. Perceived self, what you know, what you think you know, to be the truth. No ple. Okay. So please,

Craig: 1:14:49

yeah, go

Katiuscia: 1:14:49

ahead.

Craig: 1:14:50

Yeah. So then I think that, um, I mean, just back to my direct experience, like I. I just think it's the education of it and the more that we start to allow this to come unfold, I mean, it's happening. Texas has started, did a, I think they've approved Ibogaine now. I think it's, they just ran a bill here in Idaho for hopefully, potentially ibogaine being, um, allowed. So yeah, educating and then having people share their experience with that. You know, there's really some good shows out there on Netflix, how to change your mind, in Waves of War, that talk about the psychedelics and the journey of that healing process. So, back to my story.

Katiuscia: 1:15:40

Yeah.

Craig: 1:15:41

So I did that, uh, first DMT picked up my wife from the airport that afternoon and said. So this just happened and shared my story and they're on the way from the home, from the um, airport. We pull into the driveway and I'm like, so bottom line is you have one mom and we need to move back to Idaho so you can be with her. I don't know how the fuck is gonna work, but we're gonna make it work because that's what is meant to be. And so we had just renewed our lease in our house and. Had to get out of that and everything worked out. And we bounced back to Idaho, got back, and then she had three months with her mom before she passed away. And then it was, uh, I'm not regretful of moving, but that put me into another tailspin 'cause now I didn't have the water, I didn't have the ocean, I didn't have all those things that I was like really helping myself come to a place of stability or perceived stability. and then I was starting to drink again. All the habits were starting again. but I'm having to be there for my wife 'cause she's, I mean, she's going through it with, after that, when she, her mom passed away, she was in, I thought my grief was bad. It was what she was experiencing to lose a mother is… I, I do not look forward to that time. Um, so I'm holding space for her as best I can. She spends about, she just starts shifting it all. She's starting to say like, oh, mediums like, well, how can I connect with my mom in any sort of way? what's going on out there? Her friend gifts her a session with, uh, Reiki master. So Reiki is energy work.

Katiuscia: 1:17:34

Mm-hmm.

Craig: 1:17:34

You familiar with that?

Katiuscia: 1:17:35

Yeah.

Craig: 1:17:35

Yeah. Cool. Um, so she goes and gets this reiki session and she comes back and once again it was like that same feeling of when she came back from UPW, it was like, oh, there she is. I'm like, she would say, there you are, Peter. And you'd be like, okay, cool. She's back here. She gives me a hug. She's like, sorry, I'm just doing the best I can with this. And I was like. Absolutely. And once again, I want that.

Katiuscia: 1:18:01

Mm-hmm.

Craig: 1:18:02

Gimme whatever you just did. And so I, uh, she gifts me a reiki session. And long story short on that, I smoked DMT on the reiki table and did reiki and got to go into deep, within the clocked doors to see where the pa the, the pain was originating from. And I was originating from this 3-year-old of me. And so in the midst of the, that ceremony, I go and I pick him up. It's a shadow of myself. He's very full of shame and guilt and this little boy and, and, uh, so I pick him up and I'm like, alright, we're not gonna ignore you anymore. And I'm, I'm here for you and we're gonna, now I see where the work is, now I see where I need to do work. And how we're gonna, we're gonna build a relationship with you and get you out of there. You know, you're not, you're not gonna be pushed aside anymore. That little boy is, is a beautiful little boy that experienced some things in life that, you know, not others have had, you know, had those experiences and it did whatever. So. Get off that reiki table, and I'm like, okay, that was different. I call my wife, I'm like, I'm gonna swing by. I'm gonna pick you up. And then I'm driving to the river and I'm going to baptize myself. I'm gonna wash myself. All these sins I gotta get in the water. Like water element is just so powerful to me. It's like so grounding, so like. Ah, clean me please. Thank you. Nature. And so then, um, now I realize like, okay, now it's time to do some work. I know where I need to do work and I know why this was all calling to me. And, I get invited to go sit with Ayahuasca. I sit with Ayahuasca. Um, sat with Ayahuasca a few times and it was after that first couple ceremonies. They do 'em back to back and then you come home after that. And, um, that was an experience just being in the medicine and being with those, those. Facilitators of the medicine, beautiful couple, just beautiful, beautiful work that they do. And they actually are singing to you and playing instruments. And then when they come over, they're doing reiki on you in the medicine. And when that, you know, they come over very, very nice. Like, can you, can I work on you? And I was like, I'm all here man. I'm, I'm, I'm here for the whole thing. Hell yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:20:40

Light switch on

Craig: 1:20:41

treat this guy. Mm-hmm. And, uh, dude, he got like, over here, I call her angel mother, and she was just singing and uh, like patting me with this feather while the other, um, the shaman comes over and just starts, he touches my heart and starts singing and it was like, I don't even know what, what that was, but it was like everything just started to release out. Through the, through the voice, you know, through my, you know, through whatever sounds were coming out. But it was releasing, it was unlocking the heart. It was like, and he just kept singing into it. And then another shaman comes over and starts working on my legs and it's just moving this energy through and it's just wa coming out. And it felt so good. It was just so relieving, like all this pent up tension that we carry around, it's like, wow, what's going on? And, um, then, after the ceremony I'm like, I go home and I'm, you know, journaled all kinds of stuff about what the details of all this is. But I go home and I am on my way out to my garage and out the corner of my eye, I catch myself in the mirror, in the bathroom mirror there. It's like I had to do it like a double take, like, oh shit. Like looking right at me in the mirror and I'm just like, I love you. When was the last time I loved you? I haven't loved you. I haven't loved me. Like, alright, I'm gonna continue loving me. And now I know where truth resides directly in the heart. That's where truth is.

Katiuscia: 1:22:35

Wow.

Craig: 1:22:35

Beyond the mind and the heart. We trust in the heart. Speak from here. This will be truth is always truth. So then I'm just open to it all, like, boom. One of the last ceremonies I did with this couple was, we sat with, ayahuasca, two nights in a row. Then we had a gray day where we did a sweat lodge. And then we sat with Huachuma or San Pedro, which is cactus. This is like the grandfather medicine.

Katiuscia: 1:23:06

Oh,

Craig: 1:23:06

the grandfather's son medicine. It's in the peyote family. And so it's a more of like a, you, you can like have a conversation like this.

Katiuscia: 1:23:15

Okay.

Craig: 1:23:15

And just be totally chill. And it's a, it's a practitioner's medicine, like a meditation practitioner's medicine. Like where you can, dissolve the ego. And the medicine will open up, or you can stay right here and just have this conversation. But anyways, I, went up for a hoppe serving, which is a tobacco herb that is a snuff that's blown into the nose, and it's, I love tobacco. It's a great relationship with, uh, great way to have a relationship, to keep it in ceremony. Not a daily thing, you know. And then also worked in that ceremony with Sananga, which is eyedrops, Amazonian eyedrops that are cleansing and healing to the eyes.

Katiuscia: 1:24:00

Okay.

Craig: 1:24:01

All, everything is about releasing all the shit that's inside of you. Tension. It's built up over times of trauma and experiences. Anyways, in that medicine, it was like, you know, I just did hoppe and I will and sit on my mat and I just drop into meditation as best I can. I'm not really. Knowing what meditation is, but I'm gonna sit here and I'm gonna let this medicine work through me. Cool. And it was a really cool experience where I saw, you know, my, my wife was actually in that ceremony and she was getting worked on, in the, at the altar with the nanga. And I'm sitting over here just holding space for her, and I see my, my buddies that have passed, like working with the, with the shamans. Mm. And this chief energy was like this. Direct chief is like, Hey, this is what they're doing. This is what you're doing. This is what we do. It's like we are, we are healing. We are like, that is, that is the Warrior's way. Like this Warrior's Heart is way, this Warrior's heart is awakening. And the courage that it took for you to raise your hand and say, I'll go and serve and I'll give my life. My everything for a greater good. That is the warrior's heart and the Bodhichitta, the awakened heart. This is where it is. And this chief's just like, but now the medicine has shown you everything that you need to know for now. Now go digest and integrate this medicine, all the lessons that we have taught you from the medicine world. And so then next thing I know. My wife's friend, Jessica, gifted me Autobiography of a Yogi. Paramahansa Yogananda. I resonated deeply with that. I was looking for meditation. I didn't know what I was looking for, but that popped up in my, my scan of awareness and I read that book and it was, I was like, this is cool. I need, I need more of this. Then I joined the SRF, which is Self-Realization Fellowship. So the premise of all of that is the science of meditation. So I, you know, they, they basically send you out lesson plans and you read the lessons you practice, and it's a baseline of crea yoga, meditation, however. You know, I won't get into,

Katiuscia: 1:26:31

did you ever go to the temple in Encinitas?

Craig: 1:26:34

No, I didn't.

Katiuscia: 1:26:34

Okay. The Self Realization Fellowship, I, I

Craig: 1:26:36

still, I would love to go though, 'cause it's still, I feel like, you know, our lineage, each individual had a lineage, a lineage that they, from their direct experience is gaining and that lineage is very vast. but yeah, so I practiced that for about two years or so. And I got invited. So I was like, okay, no more medicine. Got it. I'm gonna listen to the chief, I'm gonna do what I'm told and I'm gonna practice this. Cool. I'm, I'm integrating as best my level best that I can, doing the best I can in life. Cool. And then we go. And, um, my buddy from that, I contracted with my first team leader. I fucking love this guy. He taught me about how to not give a fuck as much and operate at a very high level. So anyways, they, they had a, a sponsor that was, they're working on getting FDA approval for MDMA and assisted therapy. So, uh, I got to be a part of that study and it was down in, um, Maryland at, uh, blanking on the name of it. Sunstone therapies.

Katiuscia: 1:27:49

Okay.

Craig: 1:27:49

So if you watch, how To Change Your Mind by Michael Pollan, my one therapist is on there.

Katiuscia: 1:27:55

Oh, nice.

Craig: 1:27:55

Helping the, helping one of the ladies anyway, so I went down for that. that was, once again, I'm like, oh, okay. Yep. This is a yes for sure. I don't know how the heck I'm gonna make this work. I had left, Invictus and now I was working with Core Building Company. Luckily, they, they said they, I should say that I, I didn't tell 'em everything, but they said yes. and, you know, he's a great guy that supports anything that I needed for, for my own healing. Um. And then, so I spent three months in this, you know, you partake in the medicine three times, once a month, throughout that three month program, working with the two best therapists to ever walk this planet, in my opinion. And It helped me get to a place of peace with everything in me. Every little secret, every little thing you could ever think of just naturally comes up. We used Internal Family Systems as kind of a, a therapy guideline to allow yourselves all those parts to come up and be able to have a conversation with them, and then be able to get to a place of compassion and love for them. So I'm, I'm feeling like wide open and at peace. This is amazing. Like, okay, I'm, I'm open to what's next. 'cause this is not the end, this journey never ends. Um, and so Bob Kaufman, my therapist hooked, linked me up with Moose, the director for the Wisdom Dojo, and I have an interview with him and I get to have the, my, for the first time in my life, I had like a no shit honest conversation with somebody like, well, I'm feeling weird about this because, you know, the Self Realization Fellowship, I just took on a guru. And they told me in that I'm gonna get confused if I let go of that. But this Wisdom Dojo, once again, it's that thing in the heart that's saying that Whisper saying, go, this is where you're going. And you're like, okay, I'm, I'm leaping here. I go. Had a great conversation with him. he, they allowed me into the, the Wisdom Dojo and I, got teamed up with Mark Williams, the one of the founders, and. I got to go through a nine week program, which is the fundamentals of meditation. Beautiful process. These teachers, I cannot say enough good things about them. Like words don't even compare to when it comes to, to, um, to these teachers. They are the epitome of unconditional love and we, you know, so many people throw around unconditional. But when you can truly experience unconditional love and understanding in a compassionate way, and being held in a space like that where your truth can continue to arise, no matter how weird, no matter what it is, come with all your scars, come with who you are at the depth of who you are. That's what the community that they've, they have created and then that we all get to continue to create and help create. So from that community, I was able to go through the fundamentals. I'm like, fuck yeah, I found it. Boom. I'm in. I'm like practicing devoted. I will continue this path no matter what. This is the utmost of importance to me. I went down to, uh, then I got asked if I wanted to go to, uh, the Mission Within, which is Ibogaine and Five MEO in Mexico. Most powerful psychedelics. known on this planet. Ibogaine comes from the iboga tree out of Africa. Probably the first founded a psychedelic on this planet, I think. Um, anyways, went down there, went through Mission Within it was you, uh, participate in the ceremony where. Ibogaine is really, truly making you, it's healing in a way that, um, truly you don't, nobody can really put it, put it together. I mean, it's healing traumatic brain injury at a very, very high level, healing the body in a way that is unbelievable. And so for my experience was it was like having a grandfather just, and they call this grandfather medicine as well, but I think, uh. San Pedro Huachuma is more of like grandfather's son medicine, Anyways, it was like having this guided gentleman, grandfather figure, and I was able to like ask him questions and just be like, why do I get mad? And it would be like, like inception, like bam. Oh, I'm in the kitchen. The dishes aren't done. Like that's what I get mad at. Son of a bitch. I thought it was more,

Katiuscia: 1:32:50

this is deeper.

Craig: 1:32:51

Yeah. So anyways, uh, went through that and I got to go through, um, that ceremony with my old team leader. and it was really special to be able to have him there for me to be able to work through some of these insecurity things where I was shaming myself and, and, um, telling myself I, you know, the imposter syndrome of like, how could I even be considered among These giants of men like to be one of them. Like there's no way. And then it really helped me, you know, I was able to talk to him with an honest, open heart with so much of, so much fear. 'cause I don't want it, I didn't want him to think less of me. I don't want any of those guys to think less of me. I want them to, you know, I wanna, I want them to think of me the way I think of them and love them unconditionally and, um, yeah. So. Went down Mission Within, and then after that, um, before Mission within I, I got to do some higher level or deeper, meditation practices. They call it sessions in the, Wisdom Dojo and that's direct, um, directly taught by the teacher himself one-on-one and to go down there where medicine and meditation. my meditation practice is meeting medicine. Different experience. Because you know the Wisdom Dojo exists because of the veteran suicide. We, suicide rate, we, the mission behind that is to end the suffering end, the end the suicides. Like if we can get people to a place where you can like stabilize and know that that's not the answer, then we can keep more people alive. The greatest human beings to walk this planet.

Katiuscia: 1:34:35

Mm-hmm.

Craig: 1:34:36

Can give back to this planet in a way. In a way that is beyond what our conceptual mind could even imagine. And so when you go through these psychedelics, when we have removed that perceived self, and you're connected with the divine, connected with your, your perception of the divine direct connection with that, now you have a view, you have a place, you have a reference point that you can point to. You can remember that. And so now we take these meditation practices and now we begin to walk ourselves slowly and patiently, walk ourselves back to that point to where we now can begin to stabilize in other then edgeless awareness of there is no edges here. So now as we practice. With that, you know, the, the basis of the three main pillars of the Wisdom Dojo is the practice, the community, and then we have another thing called the, uh, awakened relating circle. So this is where, this is where we take the meditation practice from the cushion, and we, we bring it into the world. What's the point of doing a meditation practice? If I can't walk this planet, if I can't be a better human being, if I can't like. Now the practice becomes, it's never, not the practice, it's always the practice. This conversation right here, right now in this very moment is the practice as we continue to work in this. And then so when, so taking that awakened, relating circle and being able to help show us like, let's speak from this truth place, but how do we get there? You know, like I started out by saying, I'm nervous. That's part of it. We're calling out what we're feeling, we're letting go of the story, the memory that says, oh look, I hate that person because of this and this and this, blah, blah, blah. I don't want to go too far down that rabbit hole, but those are the main three main pillars of the Wisdom Dojo. And so coming out of the, the Mission Within, I got an opportunity to, become an instructor with the Wisdom Dojo. To teach other vets that have coming out of psychedelics into a place now, of now it's time to integrate and I get to teach the fundamentals of the meditation practices. It's nine weeks and we, we take that and, um, it's my, it's one of my greatest honors of my life. Like truly the, to be, to be in this place. This time in this space at this moment to be granted the privilege and the opportunity of these practices to come into my life for these medicines to come into my life. Like, it's like Norma would say, my therapist, you can't make the shit up. There's a fucking reason for it. These practices that have been. Created in a way comes from a traditional place, a lineage deep to over 2000 years old, but has come to a place to come through Some teachers that said, we need to make this digestible for the American man and woman. We need to make it so that they can do this. It's like a workout. Okay, boom. America is very different than all this other societies, so they've made it. For, to be in a place to receive that there's no fucking mistakes. This is, this is truth at a level that is when we truly let ourselves gain a perspective that is beyond everything that we ever imagined. We can start to see how these are here for a very deep reason to heal the human heart. To allow ourselves to help get ourselves back to communicating with the heart, communicating from that divine truth. Because if I see you as the divine being that you are, I no longer see any flaws. I'm not judging you from a place of my conditioning. I'm seeing and connecting with you from this direct connection. Of the divine that is working and animating this whole entire thing. That's, that's real fucking work at the level that it's beyond my conceptual imagination. So yeah, I get to teach that. And, uh, the way that his teachings are broken down and so. We have to get the body out of the way. We have to be able to get our body into a parasympathetic state when we're running around this world. Especially if you're operating in, you know, other countries. We're a hypervigilant la like we're going all the time. We need to get ourselves to be able to let the fight or flight that amygdala to get to a place of like rest and digest, get the body to calm down the nervous system to just relax. So we'll spend time, as much time as we need to addressing the body. You know, my kids know these practices. They, they are working primarily on the body practices right now, and that's, that's where they're at. And that's perfect. So we can get the body to get into a parasympathetic state. Now we can begin to work with the mind. If we jump to the mind and think that we're going to, we're gonna sit in meditation. Good luck, and this is why people sit down like, I can't meditate. Well, fuck yeah, dude. Your fricking mind is a wild stallion, fricking hopping around, spitting and gnarling like it's causing all kinds of ruckus. And then you got a body that's not parasympathetic. It's in a sympathetic fight or flight, like good luck. Your body's gonna keep calling out to you to get the fuck off the cushion. Your mind is saying, making up all kinds of shit just to get off of the cushion so you can get back out there and get to your to-do list, and get to all the things done that you need to do. When we're saying there's nothing to do, nowhere to go relax, let's get the body out of the way. Parasympathetic state, let's get the mind to be calm and abiding. We've gotta work with it. We've gotta be patient with it. We gotta meet ourselves. As a, as you meet yourself as a child with ultimate compassion, with Ultimate Grace, every time the mind takes us away, we just bring ourselves back nice and gently. We love ourselves unconditionally, love ourselves. Boom. We get to a place of mind, calm and abiding, and we get to go into the ooey, gooey goodness of the heart, beauty of the unconditional heart. This, this love. That you can feel it. You know it. You know it without a shadow of a doubt. When you feel the heart, whether it's whether it's opened or closed, cool or warm, you are, you are feeling what's truth. And so now when we get to open to this heart, we can open to this spaciousness and we can start to have unconditional love and compassion for ourself. Whew. Breathe into that. Breathe into that truth that's within you right now, all the time, not outside of you. And then from there, now we've gotten to the basic meditation. We know the fundamentals meditation, which all those practices put together, can make a lifetime of meditation practices. And then we start to, we start to train in that now. So now we have a community retreat coming up. We go out into the community retreat. We start to connect with the community, the Sangha, the, you know, we start to embrace this. We know that we've got people to our left and right that understand us at this level, that we can have these conversations of what we would perceive as secret, you know, and we can. Can be, be ourselves and find ourselves in that. So we have community retreat, then you can now you start deepening into that practice. We, we have it in belt systems and um, you know, you start practicing training in the purple belt system, more of that spacious awareness. And then you go into sessions, practice, and then the path just continues on. The well is very deep and, uh, there's no end to it. And then through the community, we can go out and do a silent retreat and sit for, sit with yourself for 10 days, no talking, no eye contact with anybody else, but you still have the community that's around you. You're being fed well, you're like, now. And for me, it's like these practices, you know, we're, we're over here learning the fundamentals, we're doing this training. Okay, cool. That's my training. And then I go into a workup. I go do a community retreat, you know, like, uh, we can still talk and stuff. And then from there, now it's time for a deployment. It's time for a let's go sit in silence now. Silence. Let's get, let's become friends with the mind.

Katiuscia: 1:44:24

So I love it. I love it in the sense of you just took me and everyone listening on such a journey from how, I mean, just your beginning stages, and then to share all this and to be vulnerable enough to share. I'm very grateful because to get to a place where you are achieving healing and it's, it's kind of that never ending mission though, right? Is the way I look at it with even my own personal, from my own personal experience. You're always healing in some way.

Craig: 1:44:54

Mm-hmm.

Katiuscia: 1:44:55

But to have such profound experiences, and I think what I love and what I admire about you is that when you talk about this stuff and you say words like, like all that's been coming out of your mouth has been, what an opportunity, what a privilege. I'm so grateful. Like you can tell that this shit is so important to you and resonates so deeply, and it's so genuine that it's like. How can you not wanna know more? Like every conversation. That's why I said every conversation I have with you is so fascinating to me, but I would love to have this again where you dive maybe deeper into meditation, because I think it's fascinating that you get to lead these retreats and everything like that. I will ask, what is a way, do you have social media handles that anyone can get in touch with you? Follow?

Craig: 1:45:40

Yeah. I hardly ever get on there, but, uh,

Katiuscia: 1:45:42

okay.

Craig: 1:45:43

I think it's Coach Craig underscore. I did a thing back in the day, it was called Guns and Fitness. Nice. That's the only time I did social media.

Katiuscia: 1:45:50

Nice. Okay. Well if you have anything where you can be reached, I, you can give it to me and I'll put it in the notes Okay. Of this episode.

Craig: 1:45:57

Cool.

Katiuscia: 1:45:58

That way. Um, cool, cool. And I like to ask and totally feel you don't have to answer. What is one thing in your life now, being at the place you're at, what is one thing in your life you maybe wish you had done differently? I don't wanna make it like a regret thing, but I just mm-hmm. If you could have taken a different direction or made a different choice, what's one thing if you have one?

Craig: 1:46:21

Hmm. It's funny, it's like the memories of like, you know, I wish I would've went on that deployment. I wish it would've, you know, not taken her back. And then that, and I honestly, I. I can't look back at my life with any sort of way that I could have done anything different. There's no, um, I think actually found the love and compassion for myself earlier on.

Katiuscia: 1:46:54

That's good. That's beautiful. Yeah. And I, I don't ever wanna make it like a regret thing. No. Because all those bad things led to something amazing, right?

Craig: 1:47:01

Yeah.

Katiuscia: 1:47:02

So in everyone's life, like we always say like, oh no, hashtag, you know, Scotty p we're the millers. No regrets. Not even one letter. Right? But, um, but I think it's just. If there was one. So I, I love that, that you wish you would've found it, but you know what? You probably, you had to go through all this. Yeah. So there's a time and a purpose and everything in its right time. I will say this has been an amazing time and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming on. I'm very grateful. Thank you so much, Craig McCarroll much. Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. Bye. Have a good day everyone.